The Paper Plane Cocktail Hour: Two's Company, Three's a Crow & Canary

This holiday season, Amy and Sarah have a brilliant gift for our community — audience with Carina Murray of the exquisite Crow & Canary rep group. Year in and year out, Carina's NY NOW booth is consistently jammed, as it's a can’t-miss destination for some of the freshest indie card ranges under the sun. Carina spills on her own personal design criteria, when and how to best work with reps, and how she builds that strong merchandise mix to dazzle every last client!    

RESOURCES   
Guest Websites: 
https://crowandcanary.com/

| NY NOW:
https://nynow.com     

| NY NOW Podcast Page:
https://nynow.com/podcast     

| NY NOW Digital Market:
https://nynowdigitalmarket.com    

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Thank you for podcasting with NY NOW! We look forward to connecting with you across all our platforms and seeing you in person!
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Transcript

Amy Loewenberg: 0:23

Hi everyone, and welcome to the paper plane cocktail hour. I'm one of your hosts Amy Lowenberg relations in partnership development manager at NY NOW, I treasure the relationships I've established and I relish in the new ones that I make every day sharing information, and introducing our amazing community of retailers, buyers, artists and makers through my spotlight podcasts in New York now, and my store tours on Instagram,

Sarah Schwartz: 0:48

and I am your co host, Sarah, you may know me as the founding editor and editor in chief of stationary trends magazine, my site, the paper nerd or possibly many other podcasts, that paper fold. I've been covering the stationery and gift industry since 1997. But Never did I imagine that I one day be covering the market here in the virtual space.

Amy Loewenberg: 1:08

So throughout 2021 We'll be raising our glasses alongside our pencils as we share stories, compare notes and celebrate three of our all time favorite topics, stationery connection and cocktails,

Sarah Schwartz: 1:22

chair, listening to you say that it's a little hard to believe that our year of stationery cocktails and conversation is winding down, Amy, nothing Sunday. I know. When we bring in the new year, we will also be bringing in more paper playing cocktail episodes. Absolutely.

Amy Loewenberg: 1:41

And it's exciting to look back and think that we've been doing this for a solid year now. Can you believe that? No. No. So we've started to plan for 2022 Of course. But before we get ahead of ourselves, who are we having for drinks today?

Sarah Schwartz: 1:57

Frankly, I regard today's guest as a holiday gift to our listeners It is none other than Karina Marie of Crow and Canary. She, I know what to do. She is definitely greatly admired in our community and even something of a celebrity. If your range gets picked up by Chrome Canary, it's not just a compliment to your talent. It's a sign that your work has attained a certain indie cult status or will very soon Oh completely

Amy Loewenberg: 2:28

agreed. I just I love looking at our website and walking through the Chrome Canary booth in New York now and just seeing all those cool lines they support. I'm I'm always introduced to a new talented designer. I truly believe that Corinne is I should be ensured. It's no wonder that she's a master at what she does. And we owe it all to her childhood obsession with Sanrio stationery sets like God that's what ignited her lifelong love for cards and papers. My gosh Sarah Do you remember collecting Sanrio?

Sarah Schwartz: 3:04

Oh my gosh, I sure do. That was a super hot commodity in my third grade circle. But there's something really special about seeing all that brightly colored product laid out there especially when you're a child that you just want it all. And some of us never truly get past that feeling and ends up here I agreed that Karina also credits her dad for being an excellent pen pal and an earthing some of the neatest greeting cards a girl could dream up in her formative years. But it was only when Karina began experimenting with letterpress typesetting during her undergraduate days at the Evergreen State College and tinkered with her own Chandler and price platen press that the stationery bug really bit her. So it seems

Amy Loewenberg: 3:55

that an early love for snail mail and great design were driving forces in the formation of Crow and canary in 2006 Karina is a true champion of independent stationers and designers, which is more than evident as seen in her enthusiasm for the industry.

Sarah Schwartz: 4:11

Oh wow. Well, let's bring her on already. Yep. Hi, Karina. Welcome.

Carina Murray: 4:17

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Sarah Schwartz: 4:20

Thank you so much. So I have to tell you, almost every client I consult with wants you to take them on. And as such, you sort of have a magical reputation in the industry and getting picked up as a CRO and Canary range is akin to getting a Paper Source purchase order. So but before we get to your business, I want to talk about your AI. So when you first see a greeting card range, and I mean when if you are shopping in a store or someone is pitching you what elements tend to comprise the secret sauce that sets a great range apart. From a good one.

Unknown: 5:01

I love that question. Yes. Honestly, it really is originality. So just a distinctly different point of view than things that I've seen on the market is one of the biggest parts of what we're looking for. For instance, you know, they're aligned sometimes that you pick something up and you expect to turn it over and be a certain line, it's not you think, Oh, well, they're, you know, they're finding their voice, it's a little too close to something. So we're really looking to pull something off the shelf and say, Holy smokes, like where did this come from? I've never seen this line before, that's really a big part of the magic for us is just, you know, completely fresh perspective. On top of that, we're also you know, we're pretty specific in what we're looking for. We love handmade elements. So letterpress screen printing, some sort of like laser cutting or hand cut paper element is catnip for us, as well, we really are interested in in representing things that have that elements, we typically also represent lines that are made in the US, that's been important to us. And for the most part, it's pretty small businesses, you know, folks do grow over time and scale, some people we've been working with for over a decade, and they've seen know quite a bit of growth over the years, but we're really hoping to find a line in its infancy and be able to help guide them and grow over time. So that's really, it. Sounds simple, but that's sometimes hard to find, right? Absolutely. I

Sarah Schwartz: 6:24

mean, I think, you know, it's very hard to sort of, you know, especially when makers are starting out to, like, be true to their voice not be derivative to you know, there's a lot of balls in the air. And sometimes it takes a while for people to develop. And sometimes they develop in like, really interesting directions, like, one range of years that has had like an incredible evolution as a gingiva. How long have you had that on? Gosh, how long have you been? Stacey?

Unknown: 6:58

I think it's we're probably going on three years, next year. Gosh, it's all the time goes by so quickly, I feel like I'm I'm, you know, like a mom in that way where I'm like, it's been this year already. But um, I think in around three years, the pandemic has definitely given me some time warps a little bit. But yeah, and you're right, we can traverse a great example, because Stacy had been in contact with us pretty early on from when she launched, and we just stayed in contact over the years, you know, originally, for us, the initial look was too specific. And then as she broadened and also began to bring on a number of gift items to that's really appealing to us doing New York now and having gift makes a really big difference. So not only are we looking for folks that have a strong card line, but having a lot of gifts categories is wonderful. So Jinja really fit the bill there. And gosh, Stacy really is just an excellent example of someone who really politely kept in contact and checked in with me and made a point to, to chat with me when we ran into each other it shows and I've had a few evolutions like that with folks that maybe I met at a show and said, it's not right now. But maybe let's check in and see where it goes in the future. And we do sometimes end up representing those folks. So I love that part of it

Amy Loewenberg: 8:12

all. So that's a really good segue into what I was gonna lead into not not to cut you short, but I'd love to expand on that a little bit.

Unknown: 8:22

Absolutely. So just essentially that, you know, it's a pretty small industry, right? So I think it's, it's great to just be on good terms with people. And I will specifically tell folks, if someone pitches me, and it's not right in the moment, for whatever reason, I will say, hey, please add me to your mailing list or, you know, why don't you check in with me a year from now if it seems like it is something that could have legs for us and that we could move forward in a partnership. And, you know, I also try to be pretty frank, if something just isn't a match for us and say, most definitely, there's a market for it. However, it's just not our particular market. So keep that in mind as well, that, you know, I think it's really about just setting expectations. And I try and do that pretty pretty clearly.

Amy Loewenberg: 9:04

So actually, you're you're you're touching on something that I'd love to dive a little deeper into. It is super exciting when you build those relationships and I love that you're meeting people at the near now market. But on the other side, I have a growing number of newer designers who are reaching out to me, and they're they're looking to connect with retailers, but they're so new to this process, that they just they really need help. So, you know, you're a nationally recognized rep group and you specialize in modern paper goods and gift items, as you just mentioned. But when is the best time for a designer of those goods to work with a rep group like crowing? Canary?

Unknown: 9:44

Yes, very great question, Amy. It is sort of a there are a number of things that need to be happening a lion has to be established enough that they are offering enough product right so he launched with 15 cards and are doing it really slowly and just kind of trying to see what the market is Interested in then that's not quite the right timing for us, you know, we want really, you know, a pretty fully fleshed out comprehensive line. So we typically say at least 45 to 50 cards within the range. As I mentioned before, as well, we love seeing gift items, especially categories of gifts that don't have a saturation in the market already. And just for fun, some of those items would be for always looking for ornaments, calendars, planners, pens, those are the type of things that our buyers are asking for. So you know, we are always keeping our eyes open for those. So that also can be a really good inroads for both reps and retailers is you know, taking that leap and making that investment. And know the truth of the matter is, it's sometimes you just have to kind of get your feet wet. So making sure that your pricing and your minimums are on par with industry standards, it's going to make a big difference when you're working with retailers and reps. And, you know, thinking about just the sort of things that timing for release, that's right, if you, you know, are just now thinking about releasing holiday to the wholesale market, then probably pretty to you know, you're pretty late for that to move forward. So just really knowing and understanding the schedule. And I think maybe you guys have talked with Katie hunt before, but I worked with her for proof of product and done lots of education. And that is such a great wealth of information. There's all sorts of programs, proved products, one of them. But I really encourage folks that are just starting out in wholesale to try on some different programs, even just free resources. There's so much that is available, depending on what you know what your budget may look like for education. But it's much easier to find, you know, what sort of things that retailers are looking for and expecting online than it was 15 years ago, when I started, I remember just looking for an example of a tradeshow booth within our industry and one tiny thumbnail.

Sarah Schwartz: 11:53

Right, right. And you mentioned like, when you mentioned, for example, that gingerbread wasn't right for you. At first, she sort of said she wasn't there. were you referring because when she started, for example, she was just really focused on baby, which is like a great segment that it isn't, you know, it isn't like well rounded enough for you to be able to kind of like, show exactly, because if a retailer doesn't have a great baby business, then they wouldn't, they would pass on that. And that's like, sort of a missed opportunity for you. So when you were when you were speaking about how she wasn't ready, that's that's kind of what right,

Carina Murray: 12:29

yes, the categories were too niche for us in terms of like you said, being very baby focused. And I think I may be wrong, it's like a sudden my memories a little spotty these days, but I don't think she had as many greeted cards either. So that was a factor for us. We're always looking for like lots of greeted cards, lots of occasions, folks that are doing holiday. And you know, just really watching as she grew, I loved that. She started, you know, thinking about some different themes. So she was super animal focused right when she launched. And now it's really expanded into all sorts of illustration. And you know, exactly what you said, Sarah, broaden the market for folks that maybe are like, ah, you know, this look is a little two children are baby focused, it's not going to match for my store. Now they have the opportunity to say, oh, there's all of these other things that I love. You know, there's enough selection now that people can easily put together orders that are within sort of certain themes, if that's all that they're looking for.

Amy Loewenberg: 13:24

So what do you suggest when you know, a new designer may come to you and maybe they don't have the 4550 cards, maybe they've got like 25 but they've actually landed a couple of accounts, but they're just not versed in how to reach the retailer and they're in that spot? Just maybe some of your professional advice? is they're not ready like what what other than like, yes, like Katie has improved the product that fabulous like there are so many great resources out there. But sometimes it's hard for them to take that plunge and I find that I'm I find that I'm constantly wanting to kind of nudge people in a in a certain direction. What are some of those other directions or suggestions that you might provide somebody in that space?

Unknown: 14:15

Absolutely. Well, there's there are just so many free resources available in terms of marketing yourself and having the opportunity to get your products in front of the eyes of buyers so of course it feels like it goes without saying but social media right so making sure that you're posting regularly on social media Instagram still seems to be sort of the the king in terms of what our industry and for stationery is using it is a very visual product. And also the truth of the matter with social media too is just that you can really even develop relationships with buyers if you're engaging authentically. So that's another opportunity for sure. You know paying attention to the type of things that buyers are posting that they're purchasing for their shop to to see if you're a fit. So way to kind of

Amy Loewenberg: 14:57

interrupt because that is like the most important thing point I think that you just touched on is being present and really seeing what the community who you want to sell your product to what they're saying, what are they speaking about? Yeah, right.

Sarah Schwartz: 15:11

Right. What do you add to the conversation that's different than what they're already showing? Like, how can you say, Wow, that sort of bring it to the next level? Because you already see what they're selling their customers and tidying up? Right, exactly.

Unknown: 15:26

Yeah, very well put. And, Amy, that also reminds me, you know, I know that you have been making your shop trips for a while now, I think that's really important for manufacturers to you know, I know, not everyone's in a major city, or an area that does have a wealth of, of wonderful independent retailers. But if you're traveling to other cities, wherever you have the opportunity to go in, take a look around, see what they're stocking, sometimes you might even have the opportunity to meet the owner or the buyer, and again, have some sort of authentic exchange, that goes a long way. And, you know, also really knowing the market, I do find I get pitched by, you know, for example, like really commercial cards that would maybe perhaps be sold in a drugstore or photo based cards, I would hope that if someone looks at the range that we represent and looks at our roster, they can see that that is not quite a fit. But sometimes people are too new in the industry to realize like, Oh, those things don't usually have a lot of overlap. So really, just understanding where you fit in the Marketplace makes a really big difference. You know, you want to be complimentary next to people. Right. Right. Right.

Sarah Schwartz: 16:28

Yeah. Oh, I love that. You talked about like, kind of finding your paper tribe, you know, whether it is proved a product. I mean, there are there's so there's so many OUT out there. Yeah. And, you know, I know we've been talking a lot about Stacey, I mean, she has this creative powerhouse society. Yes, that's society. I want to be in like,

Carina Murray: 16:47

totally

Sarah Schwartz: 16:49

great apart. I mean, there's so many groups

Amy Loewenberg: 16:52

because it's a secret society, I didn't know about it, what is it

Sarah Schwartz: 16:56

is we have a secret handshake, now, I want to play. I spoke for them. And it was so amazing. It was a you know, was it was a zoom, it was essentially, you know, a call. But when I came, I came in sort of right before I went on and sort of saw the tail end of they're kind of all conversing amongst themselves. And it was amazing. Like, I took stuff away from me, and I'm not even in this business of a, you know, in that same segment of the business at all. And, you know, there's such power in like, just communing with, you know, like minded Korea, especially when we're all feeling so isolated. And I think that speaks to the your store visits to Amy, I mean, I still feel isolated. But, you know, it's so cool to see in one of your store visits, you know, a product that I might have only seen in market living in a store. Yeah, how a retailer takes it, and you know, what they do with it, because I never would have thought of it, you know, how how they presented a lot of the time,

Amy Loewenberg: 18:05

and I will also say, you know, Kareena, you can actually suggest push eggs, some people on who, you know, I can't possibly get to all the stores I want to and I want, so I'm going to start doing remote store visits. And so I will reach out to people, they're going to reach out to me, hopefully, and send me some pictures so that I can still do my store visits when even if I can't physically, you know, step inside.

Unknown: 18:35

That's great. I think that's a wonderful opportunity for everyone.

Amy Loewenberg: 18:38

Well, you know, some key people too, so spread the word happy to be a connector.

Sarah Schwartz: 18:46

Um, so Karina, we've talked, we've talked a lot about, like, what you like to show, you know, your clients what made you know how you sort of your criteria. But when we when we look at like chrome and Canary when we look at your business, you've mentioned to me that you like to have a certain balance of ranges to offer retailers. I mean, my guess is it's so like, if you don't like this, I have this, you know, that. That type of exchange. So I would, I'm curious about what comprises your equation for, like a strong offering to present to your retail clients like what needs to be like, what pieces needs to comprise the hole for you to show feeling like, I've got it all, you don't like

Unknown: 19:34

this? I have this, you know, right? Yes. Well, it's interesting because there are a few ways you can look at it, especially the show, it really becomes clear because people are operating in more of a fast paced manner than instant meetings. But you know, sometimes if we show a line, whether it's at a show or in the store setting, then that can kind of dictate what they're going to want to see next. You know, if it's a first visit, we tried to just show them everything and not make any assumptions about what it is they're going to buy. But, you know, if they're in a hurry, and they recommend something, then you know, if they start with XYZ press, then we know they're really likely to like something else. So that's a big factor. On the other hand, I think kind of speaking more to what you your question, Sarah is, there are some people that come in, they're only looking for like funny cards they want, they want humor. So there are a lot of cards within our roster that do not fit that bill. Right. They're more sincere, they're more straightforward. So it's really always important to us that we're having the like, the sort of the the sentimental viewpoint, the artwork is always really key. However, when it comes to humor, it's more about the writing. So, you know, balancing those things as well. And then again, the part of that magical equation seems to be, you know, the actual artists point of view. So making sure that the way it's executed is done in a way that feels fresh and different. And, you know, has some sort of elements that we've not seen in the market yet.

Sarah Schwartz: 20:56

I mean, it must be hard. I mean, like, I just found that my clients, I mean, it seems like everybody's asking what size? You know, should I do the a two? Should I do five by seven? Should it be greeted? Should it not be greeted? Should I be doing holidays? Should it be more millennial card sending? Like, you've got to have it all? Because like that?

Unknown: 21:18

I mean, I will say that there are definitely things so we typically a to is more the size we represent, or in our couple exceptions or, gosh, what was one of the other things that you mentioned, like read

Sarah Schwartz: 21:29

inside? What do you do with a lot of greeted inside cards?

Unknown: 21:33

Pretty much none. That's not something that most of our buyers want to, to have to deal with in terms of what the Cielos people end up taking them out? We always you know, are we consider exceptions or if a line we're working with wants to introduce something like that, then we will help guide them around how they might want to package them, those sorts of things. But yeah, there definitely are some more of the like minutiae of points that are possibly deal breakers for us, or things that we might have to consider as to whether that really is a match for the bulk of the stores that we're working with. Yeah,

Amy Loewenberg: 22:04

a random question. What do you think about the naked cart movement?

Unknown: 22:09

Oh, you know, as just a human being on this planet, I love that folks are getting, you know, creative around how to produce waste. And, you know, thinking about different ways that we can change packaging. However, with my business owner sales rep hat on, it's really challenging for a lot of stores. And you know, especially in certain environments, I worked with some great grocery stores, that they still deal with tons of damage with the fellows you know, coffee spills, and fingerprints and different things. So I think offering eco friendly packaging or like me, as you mentioned, like naked cards, celery cards is awesome. However, there are going to be stores and it just doesn't work for so having both options, I think is kind of still where we're at.

Amy Loewenberg: 22:53

Yeah, it's it's very, it's very challenging. We want to do what's what's right for our, you know, for our planet. But I have to admit, I've looked at card spinners and racks where I've had to kind of like fan through the cards so I could get one that wasn't damaged.

Unknown: 23:08

Right? Yeah, dog eared edges and all that. Right. Yeah,

Amy Loewenberg: 23:11

very bittersweet. Yeah.

Sarah Schwartz: 23:14

I mean, I remember with when, with more like, you know, physical like with, with the dress books and stuff like that, like with more, you know, tangible items. Like I love it when retailers put one out and then have a pile of pristine ones buy it. That's always my favorite. It's a little more challenging with greeting with greeting cards. Like I it's hard to imagine how you could do that on say a card wall for exam,

Unknown: 23:39

right? Exactly. Yeah, just trying to keep track of hundreds of skews is it's a big thing.

Amy Loewenberg: 23:45

You know, I'm looking through your website as I have on multiple occasions. I will also just do a little call out for Kimberly, my home girl, I love her. But I was just in North Carolina and I went into a store called Sally Mack and picked up my little he Francis little notes and I say that he Francis is one of the lines that you

Unknown: 24:04

carry. Yes. And actually, he Francis is a wonderful sort of background. We started in a mentorship role with Francis before they even launched so I did some some coaching with Ali who is one of the three owners of V Francis and she is the illustrator she is she is definitely the the big talent behind all of the amazing designs. So it was it's really been fun to you know have had a little bit of my fingers within you know, the origin of the line and just being able to really be have a front seat to the the way that they have grown and you know, they are such an amazing line. Our stores just love me, Francis. I love my cards that's gonna

Amy Loewenberg: 24:46

come out along my travels.

Sarah Schwartz: 24:49

Ali's just won the inaugural illustrator the year Louis. I mean, like I really wanted her to win and it was very well done. She's She, her stuff is amazing.

Amy Loewenberg: 25:03

I'm so jealous of what you two ladies do. Because you actually get to work with people like this and help them evolve their line and actually see you get to contribute to the success of somebody. And I just I applaud you both. I think that's awesome.

Unknown: 25:17

Well, Amy, you're a part of that infrastructure too, right? We're all dependent on one another for this to happen in a

Amy Loewenberg: 25:23

different way. Absolutely. That's why I always give my opinion on like, Sara and I are known for giving our opinions on like, hey, that's your next new card. That's your next new product. Because, yes, you're into product development.

Sarah Schwartz: 25:38

I'm so and I'm curious. And it's been a crazy couple of years, as you mentioned, and I and I think time has done kind of a number on all of us in that, like, I find myself like someone will mention an article or something. And I'll be like, Oh, that was like two years ago, and it was like four years ago or Yes. Like I'm way off. But with all that said, like, how do you feel the events of the past and 18 months or so have changed? How you see stationery? And and how do you think this category kind of has evolved in consumer perception?

Unknown: 26:16

Well, I think one of the beautiful things, when the pandemic was really, you know, just starting when we were beginning to shelter in place, is that I noticed a lot of people were looking for meaningful cards, right? Like that was a communication. For the folks that did have more of a, you know, a slowdown in terms of their work schedule, had less things had more availability, you know, to do some of these things that they don't in their normal everyday life, I think there was a big boost in terms of people thinking about sending cards for different reasons, which is awesome, right? I love seeing that. And you know that the other thing that often surprises people is outside of the pandemic, just generally, I would say sort of support and friendship cards are our second best seller for categories. So there's a need and a want for that at all times. And I think it is really skyrocketed.

Sarah Schwartz: 27:05

Yeah, it's year round. I mean, like this category, they do not need to be told that you need to send someone a card, like there is a market out there that just sees the card and picks it up and sends it to their friend or holds on to it and then sends it exactly. Here's your present itself. And that is a huge behavior change, I think.

Unknown: 27:25

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think that's really big. And then the other element that I love seeing is, you know, although retailers are most definitely put in a really challenging position, very stressful, that so many communities turned out in different ways to support stores, you know, so whether, you know, folks who are doing curbside pickup orders, or you know, ordering online and getting their items shipped to them. I love that folks are rallying around small businesses. And I'm really hopeful that maybe that was eye opening for some folks that don't work within our industry to understand that, if you want these stores to stick around, we have to be supporting them year round. Like, you know, we, as much as Amazon had an uptick during the pandemic, I think people also had epiphanies around the importance of small business to

Amy Loewenberg: 28:12

absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the reality is, is that these big behemoth, you know, places are, are always going to be around. So, you know, it's a matter of how we work alongside with them. And, you know, something that you've also mentioned earlier, when we really talk about what what are some of the qualifications that you're looking for in in the lines that you carry, like you mentioned, made in the USA, you know, we are looking at all like sustainability, we're looking at a good company ethos, right, you've mentioned through, so it kind of makes sense that after going through this last 18 months, I mean, this is the point that I'm pulling together from what you're sharing is that going through this past 18 months, and how we've all shifted, we all have kind of moved into this, you know, greater supportive community place, and we do understand what the independent retailer is doing. And there is more support in some in some areas. So we just will continue to evolve. And we we need people like you who can continually be a voice of so many designer makers and who's so connected to the retail aspect of of what you do. You know, it's easier and easier to find those companies that have an aligned ethos with your own. So why don't you share a little bit of your own company ethos?

Unknown: 29:33

Sure. So this is sort of tangential but not not exactly spot on. But it always feels important for me to say this because it's a big part of what guides who we bring on and who we work with long term is that we're really looking to collaborate with folks that have similar values that are flexible, that are thoughtful that that understand if we're making suggestions or have requests, it's for the good of everyone. You know, it's not something that we're the only ones that will benefit from. So that's a really big part of the process before we pick up a line is making sure that that folks don't have a rigid viewpoint. And you know not to say that we, we also don't have the expectation that they're going to make a laundry list of changes either. But we want to be able to have a dialogue. And we typically wait to share things with lines, when we get to the point where we're hearing something multiple times, right. So you know, getting getting feedback around pricing, or I think, Sarah, you mentioned, you both mentioned about product development, right, focusing like, oh my gosh, why don't they make this car, this would be such a shoo in for what they're doing. So we pass that feedback on, and that's really helpful. You know, I know, they can't do it all the time. But if they're able to work on some of those requests, and things that goes a long way. And, you know, trusting our experience, and our you know, our trusting our experience within this industry is huge, you know, knowing that if we're asking for terms, it's because we work with a client for 10 years and, and, you know, simply not pushing back on everything goes a really long way. But yeah, and overall, much like you touched on Amy, I would just you know, we really want to work with people that understand small business. And sometimes a little bit of a red flag for me is if I were thinking about meeting with someone and bringing them on, you know, if their biggest goal is that they want to be in really big box stores and don't understand that the bulk of what we do is working with small retailers, and we're probably not a fit for them, right? Because that's not where our focus and energy lies. Like we're happy to have some of those larger orders. But those orders are not what sustained businesses, in terms of the folks that we work with, and the work that we do out on the on the field, so to speak. Interesting,

Sarah Schwartz: 31:46

I'm sure you must have kind of a spidey sense by now. Like, when you see a line, you're like, hi, I like it. I think I like it. And then you're intrigued. But then my guess is then you have to you talk to the you know, you have a conversation and you just like kind of get a sense of them. And you see if it if it's a good if it's a good match, like you've been doing this long enough that, like you sort of you sort of know, how many ranges do you care at currently have,

Unknown: 32:13

we have just a little over 20 Right now, and we so pre pandemic, we would try to look at bringing online end of year and then usually, April May, and you know, everything has sort of gone off the rails in terms of that. But it is important to us that we are regularly sort of refreshing and and bringing on new items, because that's one of the biggest questions we get, whether we're meeting with folks in stores or at shows, what's new, do you have any new lines, people are really excited to be connected with new products. So you know, that's a really big factor. And then the other piece for us is that, you know, I have six wonderful reps that work for Chrome Canary in different territories, too. So I try to get as much of the consensus as possible, making sure that they think you know, any new prospects will work in their territory, or if they have concerns, then it's something I can address when I do talk to the owner if we're thinking about bringing someone on, but there are a lot of moving parts. And it's always really exciting when we land on something that you know, just as a fit right away.

Amy Loewenberg: 33:15

I would think that you've got a little bit of a testing ground with Kimberly and her Measure twice store in Brooklyn,

Unknown: 33:20

right? Well, in truthfully, we have just we have so many amazing retailers that have you know, will tell us about lines that they think we should know about or you know, really recommend that align reaches out to us. It's not always a fit. But oftentimes that is a really great connection is having stores that know what we do have worked with us for years, and really are aware of the type of things that we're looking for when they give us recommendations, then we're really going to make sure we take a look and see what the line has to offer.

Amy Loewenberg: 33:49

Listen, I think Sara and I could probably talk with you all day long. It would be ours as well. But I think it would be remiss of us not to ask you, is there anything that we haven't touched on or that you would like to share? Now's your time to give us all the steps on how to connect with you and all that. Yes.

Unknown: 34:14

So I think you know, just going to the website is really where you're going to find the wealth of information in terms of contact information. If you're a buyer who's not working with us and you're interested. You can also see our catalogs online. We have a wholesale portal, all that good stuff is available at Chrome canary.com. And same for socials. It's all crowing Canary as well. So yeah, we're just really excited that we're moving towards being able to connect in person with more folks that really I think is energizing for all of us and I know I'm probably not overstepping by speaking for you both that it was probably very challenging you know during our our lockdown time to feel like you're working in a silo I really it made me realize how much I you know have at times taken for granted having the in person connection with people is just amazing within specifically within our industry, it's really strong.

Sarah Schwartz: 35:03

Absolutely. I mean, you don't meet you. And I didn't realize how much I missed it until I was back at the show until I was back at market. And yeah, and not only seeing people, but especially with such a tactile product, getting to touch it, like and see it in real life is like, yes, enormous, right?

Amy Loewenberg: 35:24

Yeah, there's no replacing it online. It's, it's, you know, we all have to learn how to appreciate the additional tools that we have. But there is no replacing in real life. It really is. We are in a business of relationships. We really are. It's kind of beautiful, the relationships that you've developed. And you my dear Sarah Schwartz, I learned from both of you as I watch and talk with you. So thank you for your relationship with us. And where and when can we find you next?

Unknown: 35:57

We will be in New York now in February 2022. So go here to patient there. And many others. I'm sure most I hope folks that are listening will also be attending so it'll be a fun reunion.

Amy Loewenberg: 36:11

Oh, they're attending. You're gonna have to contend with me so they're attending.

Sarah Schwartz: 36:17

Next to me, Karina, in real life, make sure you check out her nails

Carina Murray: 36:26

I do love a good rd manicure. That's for sure.

Amy Loewenberg: 36:30

Why am I not surprised? Alright, well, with that we say thank you so much for spending this time with us on the paper playing cocktail hour. And we look forward to seeing and speaking with you soon.

Carina Murray: 36:45

Perfect. Thank you again, ladies. You.

Sarah Schwartz: 36:49

Well, that was fun it. You know, I wanted to have Karina on here for some time. So it's very rewarding. For me, for us to personally end this year, having at least achieved that. However, we are looking forward to next year and I'd love your brilliant approach to our episodes in 2022. Why don't you spell Amy?

Amy Loewenberg: 37:12

Well, thank you, Sarah. I thought we would tackle 2022 in the way of any great story with a beginning, a middle and an end. So January through April, we'll be examining community players in their first act, May through August, we'll be highlighting those in their next phase, whatever that phase may be, while September through December will be devoted to those who feel who have established their businesses a following and a positioning within the industry and are just living their best brand lives.

Sarah Schwartz: 37:47

I love I love that phrase. I love that concept. And we have just started penciling folks in so if any of you listeners if you have any ideas, please give us a shout. To that end. Amy, where can our listeners find you in the meantime,

Amy Loewenberg: 38:04

you can connect with me on Instagram LinkedIn or just email me at work. I always want to highlight our amazing community on my New York now spotlight podcasts and feature you guys on my Instagram store tours. I'm available to help connect you to new and needed resources and to answer any of your new york now or SF now market or digital market questions. And where can we connect with you Sarah?

Sarah Schwartz: 38:29

Probably the best place to connect with me is at the paper nerd.com You can see more fabulous stationery coverage check out my podcast the paper folds and access stationary trends, the industry's award winning design driven trade quarterly as well. It's always a pleasure for me to learn more about makers and spotlight their work, whether it's in a publication, blog, or podcast, if you want to connect, I'd love to hear from you.

Amy Loewenberg: 38:55

So please don't hesitate to reach out to either of us with comments questions, feedback, suggestions for guests or just to say hi and introduce yourself. Thank you again so much and we will talk with you soon.

Sarah Schwartz: 39:07

Cheers.