The Paper Plane Cocktail Hour: Fine Tuning the Beast

Retail can be a monster. Just ask Michael Schultz and Douglas Duncan of Cursive. For 15 years, their stores within ABC Carpet & Home and in Grand Central Station were essential New York City shops, that is until COVID-19 shut them all down. But like the proverbial phoenix, Cursive is back in business, with two award-winning West Village shops. This shop keeping dream team spills on how a practical, careful business approach can not only carry a brand into the next chapter but can also make it all look easy!   

Guest Website: 
https://cursivenewyork.com/      

https://www.instagram.com/cursivenewyork/

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Transcript

Amy Loewenberg: 0:23

Hello everyone and welcome to the paper playing cocktail hour. I am one of your hosts Amy Lowenberg, senior relations manager for NIR now, community spotlight podcaster and all around retailer advocate. My focus is to bring you important information, conversations and perspectives from both sides of the aisles.

Sarah Schwartz: 0:42

And I am your co host Sarah, the paper nerd. I am the founding editor and editor in chief of stationary trends magazine. I also write about stationery on my site that paper nerd and I even host another monthly podcast on the topic, the paper fold. I have been covering the stationery and gift industry since 1997. But Never did I imagine then that I'd one day be covering the market here in the virtual space.

Amy Loewenberg: 1:04

So throughout 2022 Sarah and I will be or we have been raising art glasses alongside our pencils as we have shared stories, compare notes, and celebrate three of our all time favorite topics, stationary connections, and cocktails, tears.

Sarah Schwartz: 1:23

So we divided 2022 into phases. In the first quarter we examined members of our community in the initial phase of the in the of their careers. In May as the second quarter began, we moved to the next phase, the middle stage. And as we head into fall, we shifted into our final stage maturity. These will

Amy Loewenberg: 1:42

be more established brands that everyone looks up to and admires and even strives to emulate just a bit as they continue along their own path. In the case of retailers, these are brands with not just one store, but several thriving business channels. As do these gentlemen. I have known them for years and I'm happy to call them friends. Sara, why don't you share who we are having cocktails with today,

Sarah Schwartz: 2:06

I would love to were chatting with Michael Schultz and Douglas Duncan of cursive. Michael and Douglas actually started their career in the Meatpacking District 25 years ago with their wholesale stationery company motel Deluxe. I'm thinking a lot of our paper nerds out there finally remember that range. I

Amy Loewenberg: 2:27

do. And for those who can't see me I am raising my hands. So after motel Deluxe, they also had to cursive stores and I've had the pleasure of shopping and both of them. One of them was in new york city's iconic Grand Central Terminal for 11 years, and one was with an ABC carpet at home for 15 until the COVID 19 pandemic reared its ugly head and unfortunately and pended. These very long run establishments

Sarah Schwartz: 2:57

like they are so making the best have a very dire situation they double down on New York and open two shops in the West Village, one of my favorite neighborhoods even though this ex New Yorker still gets lost every time. One shop is true to the original cursive vision while cursive home is the brand's extension into home goods. Both still have a tightly focused concept with the simple mission of cultivating joy. Meanwhile, the cursive duo has established themselves as a strong industry presence,

Amy Loewenberg: 3:33

agreed they are mentors to many and friends to all although consistently evolving, cursive offers gift stationery, home and lifestyle products and as you mentioned earlier, Sarah they definitely each each store definitely has its own flair, but very easily identified as the cursive brand. So when you are in New York City and playing downtown, make sure to stop in one or both of their locations if they're actually only four blocks away from one another. And maybe just maybe you will see their sweet new child, Blinky their long haired Datsun puppy. Ah.

Sarah Schwartz: 4:07

Well that sounds good. Bring them on already

Amy Loewenberg: 4:16

Welcome gentlemen. Welcome to the paper playing cocktail hour Sara and I are so happy to have you here.

Douglas Duncan: 4:22

Oh, thank you very much for excited happy to be here.

Amy Loewenberg: 4:25

Yeah. All right. So let's just dive right in. Okay, Michael for you. But you know what? Just pipe on it if you got anything because I know you got something here. I have a motel Deluxe was a target destination for us when when I worked at Kate's Paperie we were all enamored with everything that you both put together then just as I am completely enamored with what you both do now. I was in your ABC carpet pop up. I was in your Grand Central store when you have them. And now we get to play in your two stores. Cursive New York. In your newest child, corrosive home, we clearly have seen nice growth in stores opening this year. And I'm curious about what you can share with our listeners about opening stores pre 2019, to post 2021 22? Is there anything that you can highlight as to what was good practices, then, for any of our listeners now that are looking to maybe open a new location to like, what are good practices now and any resources advice?

Michael Schultz: 5:30

Well, I think, you know, that pre 2019 I think, at least for us, we were more well, I guess we sort of learned some lessons. 17 years that we had had stores before then that, you know, really going over leases, like really scrutinizing your lease and making sure that that you can you fully understand the obligations of that lease? You know, we had, we had gone over our leases and our agreements and stuff before, but we hadn't really fully, you know, taken it to the, to the end of what could potentially happen. And I think now, I think it's very, very important to, you know, to have a team, hopefully, you have a team, even or a potential team of people that can, you can run these things by and really, really take it out, you know, more than, you know, it's really easy to get caught up in the excitement, oh, this store, the storefront is really, really cute. I've always wanted you on this block. But does it make financial sense? Is it a good fit with your landlord? We were really, really lucky when we decided when we completely started over. And we, you know, open the stores in the West Village, you know, all of our landlords are wearing tenant owned buildings, you know, they live upstairs, we know them, we know their names, you know, they, they bring us our landlord, Donna brings us cookies. You know, it's just, it's just a different way. And I think that that's where Doug, and I, you know, we had a big corporate landlord in the MTA before, and it's just, uh, you know, I think for us, we've just, it's just a much better fit, having these.

Douglas Duncan: 7:32

Yeah, I mean, I think like, one real world example of what we're talking about is this, like, you know, like, in the future, I, you'd have a thing in your lease, where it's like, if the government, local, state, federal, or whatever is requiring you to shut down and you cannot be open, well, then we're not paying rent during that time. It's just like, if I mean, if you I mean, it's like, what am I suppose? So, I mean, that's just one example of things that I mean, again, you may or may not get that, but it's it's kind of like things that didn't even occur to us before, where it's just, you know,

Amy Loewenberg: 8:01

we hadn't really gone through that before, like, right.

Unknown: 8:05

So anyway, I just really going through with a fine tooth comb on the lease, I mean, just going back to our Grand Central lease, like when we got that literally, the lease was the size of a phonebook. And we went to a lawyer, and they went through the whole thing. And then there were certain things we didn't like, and they were just kind of like, well, you know, CMTA, do you want it or not? So we're like, okay, but then after being there for 11 years, and you know, make sure you talk to people you realize where it's like, oh, well, some people actually didn't negotiate things. So don't think that just because it's there, and they say it's written in stone, it's not written in stone until, you know, the way up until it is review or whatever. Right. So

Amy Loewenberg: 8:40

that was a really interesting point. I didn't mean to interrupt you. It's just it's a really interesting point, I think that a lot of people are really nervous to negotiate. If they're not, you know, verse to it. And, like, really, the worst that can happen is that somebody says no, right?

Unknown: 8:57

Or you really just have to go in to be willing to just walk away from it, you know, and there will be another space, you will find another one, we opened that cursive in a space. And, you know, we were thinking that it was going to be temporary, we were just kind of testing it. And then we decided we want to stay and we just couldn't work out a deal with our landlord and we ended up moving the store three storefronts down on the same block. We got a really, you know, great. We got a good deal on it a fair deal. And but we had to move it you know, and find another star, you know, move it down the street while we were just about to open, you know, a new bigger store, but you sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. I also think that compared to 320 19. tenants have more tenants have more of the upper hand and they think they do at this point, because again, I mean, I fall in New York heavily the real estate I don't know the whole country, but like in general. Travel I get to San Francisco I Get to Atlanta, there's a lot of empty retail. Yeah, I mean, there was even before COVID. But since I think that tenants have more, more power than they think they have actually, compared to, you know, now, I think there's, there's deals to be had.

Sarah Schwartz: 10:15

Absolutely. So you guys, you guys are an attractive tenant, you know, to a landlord. I mean, if your store is running and open, and every day like that is a good thing for them to have in their building. And, you know, obviously, you know, if there's a lot of empty spaces that that's you become more valuable to them, right. Yeah. So my question is for Douglas, I first got acquainted with you both when you were running motel Deluxe, which was a booth I could never miss. At the time, you were one of the few vendors that I knew of that was importing stationery from abroad, and everything was always so exquisite, compared to what was going on stateside. At the time, I wasn't seeing really small trim sizes and Luke's elements like velvet ribbon at the time, and so now of course, your cursive New York shop is a mecca for stationery lovers in the West Village. So I want to know when you're walking a market now what kind of ranges are you seeking?

Unknown: 11:26

Um, well definitely, it's funny obviously, with what's called the lots we all have our cards or were handmade, there's not a lot of handmade out there anymore.

Michael Schultz: 11:35

We wish we could make

Sarah Schwartz: 11:38

their what and the thing was when you guys were doing motel Deluxe, there was a lot of handmade but it just wasn't in like that format. Like you know, your cards were so like, if typical handmade card would have wire and an image and you know, it would have like everything but the kitchen sink on it. And your your designs were like very looks but very low key they were smaller trim size with a piece of ribbon. You know, it was it was very different than what was going on in the handmade market in the US than

Unknown: 12:12

me I think part of that was just our aesthetic. We're both a bit more on the minimalist side and like things cleaner. And I also think just the fact that it was we are two men and we kind of had not that they were masculine, but there was more of a masculine bent to it as clean. Like again, like like not really per se kind of straightforward. Yeah. Oh, anyway, but then what am I looking for now anyway? But a bit along the lines, things that you can find, like, for example, like I'm a huge fan of Mowgli. And then oh, yeah, wine where it's like, you know, it basically is handmade. I mean, I still don't even know how they do it, how they've mastered

Amy Loewenberg: 12:50

doing a little bit of magic, I think just kind of dabbled Brown.

Unknown: 12:54

Yeah. But that's very appealing. And just, you know, they use very high quality cardstock.

Sarah Schwartz: 12:59

Sure, yeah. And I'm starting to see a couple more little handmade my, like, hand painted, like I found tortoise designs. Last like she's doing, she's actually hand painting every item, which is cool to start seeing that again.

Unknown: 13:16

Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's definitely a market for it. So yeah, I mean, obviously, there's more costs entailed in that, but, and again, we're in New York, but I we find very little price resistance. I mean, people have no money, have no problem spending on cards, I'm always kind of amazed when people walk up with a handful of 12 cards, and you bring it up, but I'm like, How much is this? Really, customers don't seem to mind.

Sarah Schwartz: 13:42

I mean, you guys get to observe customers in the wild, which I think is what like a lot of makers and a lot of people like me, you know, like we really want to see like, what are they looking for? What are they? You know, when, when when your cart buyers come in? Are they still buying a dozen cards? Or does it seem like they're buying they came in to buy one or are they add on sales like

Unknown: 14:08

all of the above, there's definitely people that are just running in for a birthday card. There's people that add on. And then I'm amazed that we have a number of people that like keep a stash like I'll you know, they'll come up with, you know, a birthday cards, and I'm just like, Wow, you got a busy week on your hands with friends. And they're like, well, there's some but they're like, I just like having them around. And you guys have great stuff and I just want I'm here I'll get them so I also think one of the best things that we did I mean, we were lucky because we were in New York but if I ever needed an ego boost, or like to really understand how people were shopping cards is I would go to Kate's and SOHO and I would just stand there like for an hour pilots like I was a shoplifter or something and I would just watch people shop the cart. Well, yeah, it was amazing. You know, you can learn a lot like go you know if you're Have a maker, go to your local card shop, the best one that you think is really good and hang out and watch people buy cards and well, you know, every single person, it just amazes me every everyone always turns the card over. Yeah. It's like, what are they looking for? You know, when they're turning it over? They're not necessarily looking for price. I think they're just looking to see if the quality and the design if it's if it's a total package,

Sarah Schwartz: 15:27

right, right. If it follows through I tell my clients all the time, like you have to think about what's on the back what's on the back of the card is just as it is what they're looking for. Polished brand.

Unknown: 15:41

Yes. And there for like, you know, that little bit of personality of who that company is on the back. Well, like

Amy Loewenberg: 15:49

imbued, right like that talk about personality on the back

Unknown: 15:53

or line over it's a completely different thing. It's a completely you know, there's always a little surprise sort of something on the back, you know, that just that just makes you feel like, oh, I have to have this card, and just see how people are shopping a curveball, you know, what are they looking for? What? What's standing out?

Sarah Schwartz: 16:13

I'm just curious. To that end. Can you tell me can you name any names and tell me your the top performers amongst your? amongst your stack?

Unknown: 16:27

Um, yeah, top performers. Let me see. Well, the Affer mentioned Mowgli does great. They go out as fast as they come in. Yeah, um, i Li paper goods.

Sarah Schwartz: 16:39

I L E.

Unknown: 16:41

Yeah, I think it's really love her stuff. And she said that does very well. Scribble lindab. Okay, does this beautiful illustrations is like really saturated color. And she had and she hadn't colors all of them, which is, you know, and it's interesting, because it's cards that perform well on our store have a very strong point of view. And you, you well, and also, we only have 84 card fonts. So you know, it's a small, it's a small selection and 40 something of those is birthday. So we have one whole wall of birthday. And then we have a mixed wall and you know, a couple of spinners. So our card, you know, we have to be specific in our buying and we have to have a lot of different looks because you don't want to have you know, one look, it's like we you know, we need

Sarah Schwartz: 17:39

Yeah, yeah, yet they all have to be sort of cohesive to your brand. Like

Unknown: 17:44

they have to work together and be you know, cursive, but they have to have their individual personality has to be strong.

Sarah Schwartz: 17:55

That's cool. How many maker how many cards ranges? Do you tend to have total? Like, how many do you order from regularly? Just I'm just curious. Real quick.

Unknown: 18:04

We probably have maybe 3030? already?

Sarah Schwartz: 18:08

Okay. All right. All right.

Amy Loewenberg: 18:10

That's a lot. For pockets.

Unknown: 18:12

I'm, I'm the nitpicker. And we it's more than 84. You're not counting? No. I'll give you a count later. 100. For today,

Amy Loewenberg: 18:23

we're gonna have a giant massive card wall, you know, fronts on it, we have,

Sarah Schwartz: 18:32

you might have another couple of spots where you might merchandise them like you. Right? Okay.

Amy Loewenberg: 18:38

I know that community relations play a very important part to you both. And you both have created a very strong presence as mentors to many. So first of all, thank you for that, because I think that your voices and your knowledge and your experience is just so valuable for anybody who is not just starting out, but can but has been in business for a while you guys have experienced so much. But tell us about who your mentors were or are and and some of the best advice that you received in your careers.

Unknown: 19:15

So there's two parts to that. Doug and I were really lucky that when we started motel The locks are very first. The very first sorter we ever wrote for our own company was to Barney's and Lisa, who was the buyer for the I think it was Chelsea Pat. I think it fell under Chelsea passage. She really empowered us just in the way that she shopped the line and her enthusiasm for it. And that just continued throughout our the years of when we were doing wholesale. We had many, many, many amazing buyers, who, you know, would drop little nuggets of wisdom, you know about like, well, you know, maybe The, you know, greeting cards sell better than not beating cards, you know, and if you're listening to that, if you're paying attention to what they're saying, you know, it's, it's gold. And, and we were both, I think it was lucky because there was two of us. And so if you know, someone's talking, and they're trying to sell, you know, there was somebody else behind listening and picking up on all of that stuff. And so we had buyers really, really, really taught us a lot and helped us along the way. And I think that definitely formed how we buy and how I view, you know, going in and, and, and looking at a line and, you know, hopefully, you know, offering a little bit of wisdom to the, to the people that we buy from about, you know, what we're looking for, and what the customers are looking for. And, you know, I mean, as simple thing as just changing the color of an envelope, can just change can take something in a whole different direction. And I don't, that's not necessarily something you would know, unless somebody, you know, suggests that, and we were also incredibly flexible. When people would suggest something to us, we weren't, like, stuck into like, well, this is what we do. And this is the only way to do it. And, you know, we never viewed it as our art. It was it was we viewed it more as business with it with an art, you know, underlined,

Amy Loewenberg: 21:25

I think that's a really important point to bring up too. Because I mean, I know, as a merchant, I've talked to a variety of brands and and ones who were very tied into their work, their art, their style, there was there was no conversation there. And you know, whether you're coming from like, in my case, I was coming from a company that was telling me specifics on what our consumer was looking for and what they wanted. And then my job was to, like, make that happen. So you could find something that is so like, 50 cents, 75% there, if we could just do a little tweak to it, it would completely fit into what our customer is seeking. And it was very clear to me that there were some people who were receptive to that, that ask, and some that were not.

Unknown: 22:18

And if you can be, then you're gonna go to them again and again and again. And you're just gonna build. I mean, we had I mean, we did crazy stuff, like, what was that? What was that? That garden store, you know, the fancy, they had a chain of, they had a huge run in Soho. They started in anyway, they, it'll come to me, but they were like, you know, we were doing all these Hand Embellished stuff. And they were like, well, we're not really doing this, we're really doing. We're really doing herbs. And I was like, we can do a line of cards with herbs, and they're like you can and I'm like, Sure. And so we did this pocket. So we did this with like, Rosemary sewn and organza and, and time and it turned into there, and they would come back to us and be like, hey, you know, we're thinking about doing this. Can you do this? And we're like, Sure, we can do that. You know?

Amy Loewenberg: 23:12

Once you find someone who who's going to collaborate with you, we were in. We're like, I can go to Michael and Douglas. They're gonna get this done for me. And boom, check off my list and I had 15 Other things to do. By the way, I think I have a card left from motel Deluxe with a penny that is under you. Money for your thoughts. I like It's like gold for me. I held on to it for how long? I'm not mailing it. It's mine.

Sarah Schwartz: 23:40

I mean, yeah, I love it. I think I have were you did you have something more to add? I'm sorry if I cut you off? Oh, no,

Unknown: 23:47

just we're talking mentors. And I would be remiss if I did not mention just some dear friends of ours Frederick Rambo and an Alan suppose were of the Saru group

Sarah Schwartz: 23:58

who Yeah, I remember them Good God 40

Unknown: 24:01

years now they're still going. But they were early, early mentors and taught us a lot on numerous fronts from everything of like, you know, when your company's young and you're having to almost dump every set you make back into it because you're trying to grow the best advice. The advice was you have always had to remember to pay yourself first. You've got to get paid if you're not making like you can't dump it all back in. So that was good advice. And another advice that they gave us which applies more to now being in retail, it's just the whole idea of don't fall in love with your merchandise meaning if you do something and it's a miss just put it on sale and get rid of it don't let it sit there for a year and a half if nobody's buying it nobody's gonna buy it just get a really really hard thing because you know, you find something and you love it and you want you know to support the people and sometimes it's just not gonna work. And yeah, and there are a couple also and one of the but the one of the best thing Things that they ever told us because we were working together, they were like, divide, figure out, like, who's going to do what in the business. And so Doug does most of the financial stuff and all of that, and I do, you know, I don't know what I do, but I do something else. And, and like to let the person do it, and trust that they're going to do it really well, and don't get in their business. So like, I don't go down to Doug, and be like, you know, how are you? How are you doing their financials? And what are you doing? He does it, I trust him to do it. And we don't have arguments over that. Because, you know, I mean, couples, couples argue, if you have it in a business, it's just and it was really great advice. It was just like, okay, he's doing his thing. I trust him implicitly, to do it. And I'm going to do my thing. And hopefully he trusts me to do that. And we don't have to have that overlap. I'm just one. Yes, Doug is organized.

Amy Loewenberg: 25:56

Well, it feels like we have a ying and yang, and it feels like it's a really good balance. But I think that advice is is whether you're young or not, like it's great advice to actually let the person do the job who's doing that job? And let them do it. You know?

Sarah Schwartz: 26:13

Absolutely. Absolutely. As long as they can do it, as long as it's running fine. Like, yeah, like, there's no, there's no problem. But I like what you said about like, not being too attached to something if it doesn't work, you know, I think, you know, as creatives, like we just get, sometimes we just get so invested in like, what we're doing that, you know, if it doesn't succeed, we can't get that distance from it. But you know, there's always new ideas and new things to try. If something doesn't work, you just have to kind of keep plugging away,

Unknown: 26:45

man. And I think that's always been a strong thing. You know, Doug, and I, when we were when we had Nortel, you know, our stuff was copied, you know, we found out that like that, we, we had a huge business with Papyrus. And then we found out that there was a company, you know, basically manufacturing or a look in Canada. And they had, you know, we used to sell the Indigo Books and all this stuff, and they had taken it all away. And, you know, people were like, You got to do something and you're like, like, No, we're not going to do that it's going to be a waste of our time. And we have more ideas. I mean, we have more ideas than we could actually do. And so we'll just move on. And then we just three, you know, we let that idea go. And we, you know, developed other ideas,

Amy Loewenberg: 27:30

and knowing when to move on. Yeah.

Unknown: 27:32

And that and that was that served us well, I think even in the retail, it's just like, you know, that's not working? You know,

Douglas Duncan: 27:39

I don't I don't need a lawsuit. It's a part time

Amy Loewenberg: 27:42

job. Yeah. Yeah, you know, what, also, if, if the, if the product is there, the consumer doesn't want to see it, oh, that for all that time. And then you guys need your energy on your business at hand, not on a lawsuit. So like, know when to move on.

Sarah Schwartz: 28:03

Right. And you guys are creative enough that you'll always be able to think of another idea that no one's doing or another take on something. So you're, you know, you don't need to be married to a given idea or concept or theme, you're always you know, you're you're always moving forward. So, you know,

Douglas Duncan: 28:23

we try, we try.

Sarah Schwartz: 28:27

That's all we can do. So obviously, both of you do more than just dabble in both stationary and Home and Gift. And again, you have that really cool thing where you get to observe people in the wild and kind of see what they're gravitating to, and what they're passing up. And you know, what tends to resonate with them? So I'm curious, how if you see this, like shopper behavior changing based on the events of the past few years, I mean, do you think these categories are perceived differently by today's consumers? And how is that boiling down at retail?

Unknown: 29:14

Um, I mean, just speaking to like, stationary specifically, I still it's, I know, it's technology, technology, technology still, but I just see the not not backlash, but I think people are buying more cards and paper than ever, like, even young people that people always say like, Oh, they're not into this stuff. They're totally into this stuff. We're selling more journals and cards than we ever have. And they just they appreciate the design. I think people are writing I think people are they want that connection. I think tech can get a little empty at times. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's got legs now more than ever. And I think that you know, there there are perceptions out there that like young people, young people don't use journals and they don't say Oh, Are and they don't and we just find that that's just completely not, you know, that's not the case. And that, you know, they're, they're also sophisticated, you know, they know good design, they know paper quality, they, you know, they're looking for, you know, if the paper is sustainable, and you know, you're using non toxic inks and like, they're much more much, much more aware than, like, when we were, you know, I'll speak for myself, like, that wasn't even come in was like, if it was pretty, I was like, I was done, you know, that was it? Yeah. And I liked that. And I like, and they asked questions, you know, they want to know, the makers, you know, I can, I can send and have a conversation about, you know, the makers of the stuff. And, as, as a as retailers, we should know, that, you know, we that's part of the reason why we buy it. And so it's part of our thing is to pass that on. And so then they can then pass that on, you know, whoever gets the car can be like, Oh, this is really cool card, they can have a conversation about that it's really about our job is to facilitate communication. That's really what we're there to do is to help people communicate. Right, right.

Sarah Schwartz: 31:11

And the thought process that's going into buying a journal by today's 25 year old is totally different than the thought process that the 25 year old would have even had a decade ago. So, yeah, I mean, I always think that privacy, they must be thinking a little bit more about privacy, like all the sudden, this doesn't feel so private anymore. But, you know, my thoughts I just held on my phone, but my thoughts in a journal, like that's, this is mine, and, you know, it's not good. It's really, it's really mine. But, you know, they also just, like seem to partner with brands. I mean, they see, you know, buying something, I mean, they're like partnering with that brand. I mean, they choose you, you know, to spend their money, but they're kind of, you know, partnering with it with that with that journal that they buy, it's, you know, it's, it's a commitment for their thoughts.

Unknown: 32:05

And I think they're committing to like to like cursive as a brand also. We're gonna go, because they're gonna have something cool. I mean,

Sarah Schwartz: 32:16

probably don't go into cursive looking for like, I'm gonna go find me a notebook and an eraser and you know, this and that and it's really going to put a spring in my step today. I know, I'm gonna find something great.

Unknown: 32:28

Your I think our needs are nice is that we're not like we don't really focus on the practical, like, that's just never really been our forte. We're more of the you know, the fantastical the, you know, it's a little bit more of that, of that, that that you want, then you need what we offer more of what you want less than what you need. Like we got so filofax, like I love filofax, but like it's too practical to prep.

Amy Loewenberg: 33:07

Well, you are proving in your, your own commitment to the products that you support to the brands that you support and sharing their stories and creating your own story. Well, your story has been creative supporting your story. You're finding loyalty because you're filling the the the outlook for all of these new in my mind, like these new youthful buyers. And I think that speaks to where we're gonna continue to go. I think that the process is really important. Supporting the smaller business, obviously sustainable, minority owned. And I think that your brand supports all of that it's so important today, and hopefully will continue to amplify through really important retailers like yourself. So I mean, I guess I just want to say thank you I've, I've learned a lot from you as a merchant. When I was shopping from you, I was a baby merchant, you know, case was one of my first real big gigs, right? And so like, I learned a lot from you there. And then just working at New York now and then being able to walk with you both as buyers and just talking with you as much as I do. You know, I'm learning a lot about what the buyer outlook is. So I guess I would say in a way here, you both have been unknowingly a mentor for me so, so thank you. I want to thank you.

Unknown: 34:48

Wow, you're very welcome. such powers

Amy Loewenberg: 34:55

two very powerful people here. And with that we just we did kind of touch on it before is there anything that is in the future? Are there any ideas that you're churning around anything that you want to share with our listeners before we bid you? Adieu. Where can we find you? Where can we find you?

Unknown: 35:18

Doug for baby for having any, any ideas or any expansion ideas for next year sounds fair. Ah, no, it's interesting. I mean, we're both Well, Michael Michael will be 55 Next week, I'm 55. So I'm going to say we're both 55 and what's interesting is just I don't know we've had a we are worker bees were always going like all the time and I guess where I'm personally at is like, because my clocks are always to do another store and I'm kind of like, oh my god, like I I'm more into like, how much can we fine tune the two we have because they're doing great but I'm like, there's so much more potential. I'm like, instead of like using our it's more like focusing our energy on what we have and really maximizing that. I personally, I would kind of have a hard time at this point, doing something new because in the back of my mind every night when I go to bed, I'm like, Oh, we really need to do this. This this and this at two different stores. I already have all these ideas like aren't getting fully realized. So I don't know I guess it's just I've been to I'm into fine tuning the beasts that we have.

Amy Loewenberg: 36:27

Fine tuning the beast. Make a note of that, Sarah, I like that one. We're always looking for titles throughout our reporting and that seems to be a really good but we'll say we'll say Well, with that being said you have two beautiful locations. You have a beautiful little Slinky Dog as well. I love following you on Instagram and and watching the little elf with his cargo from one store to another and reading all the 20 Somethings.

Michael Schultz: 36:52

He's like doing these things. I'm like,

Amy Loewenberg: 36:57

Well, where can we find you online? How do our listeners get all up in cursive?

Unknown: 37:05

So the fastest way is just through Instagram. We have cursive New York is the stationery and gift store and cursive NY home is the home store. Just DM through there. That's the best way to do it. Or you know us or come to New York and go to the West Village. 533 Hudson Street and 17/8 Avenue between Jamie Gatlin

Sarah Schwartz: 37:32

in real life has the best.

Michael Schultz: 37:36

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Amy Loewenberg: 37:38

Yeah. Well, with that we say thank you so much. I know Sarah and I are very appreciative for your time with us. And we look forward to more visits with you in real life, and online as well.

Unknown: 37:53

And thank both of you guys for everything that you do for our industry.

Douglas Duncan: 37:56

Yes. Thank you. Nice to see old friends. Yes.

Amy Loewenberg: 38:01

Well, thanks so much. We'll talk with you soon. All right. Sara, I am so happy we were able to have both Michael and Douglas on our podcast. They are such a central voices in the industry. And I really wasn't kidding when I said I've learned a lot from them.

Sarah Schwartz: 38:17

Oh yeah, having a great instinct for what will succeed alongside a practical understanding of the ins and outs of retail only looks easy from the outside. I think I think no matter the role anyone plays we can all learn something from taking the time to think things through and carefully respond to whatever curveball is being thrown your way. And speaking of connection, Amy, can our listeners connect with you?

Amy Loewenberg: 38:46

That was a great segue. You. You are welcome. You can connect with me on Instagram LinkedIn or email me at work. I always want to highlight our amazing community on my New York now spotlight podcast and feature you guys on my Instagram store tours. I'm always available to help connect you to new and needed resources and answer any of your new york now questions. And Sarah, how can we find you?

Sarah Schwartz: 39:14

Probably the best place to connect with me. The paper nerd is at the paper nerd.com You can nerd out with my fabulous stationery coverage. Check out my other podcasts that paper falls and access stationery trends, the industry's award winning design driven trade quarterly as well. It's always a pleasure to learn more about makers and spotlight their work whether it's in publication blog, or podcast form.

Amy Loewenberg: 39:38

I love nerding out with you.

Sarah Schwartz: 39:42

I love hearing that with you, Amy.

Amy Loewenberg: 39:44

Oh, and if we don't meet up please do not ever hesitate to reach out to either of us with comments, questions, feedback, suggestions for guests or anything. Thank you so much. And we will talk with you soon. Cheers. Cheers.

Unknown: 40:00

Hi